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Why k5 Is Perpetually Dying || kuro5hin.org

I don't get how some people here embrace FNH like it somehow vindicates their adolescent nonsense. FNH had a trollerific title, but was a compelling read. The dude had a real point to make. It took work by an intelligent person to write that story.

Trollery is an important part of a complete breakfast, but it is insufficient on its own. Without good articles, what's the point of scaring off the idiots?

--

Saying Java is good because it works on all platforms is like saying anal sex is good because it works on all genders. correct by Delirium, 02/26/2007 06:33:40 AM EST ( 3.00 / 4)

your grasp of the k5 zeitgeist is sure and firm. One can only assume this is due to all your past masturbatory experience. You make us proud.

However, I'm half tempted to -1 this... it seems to me that a necessary gauntlet for new k5ers should be figuring things out on their own. I'm not sure if I like the idea of your handy guide preparing them to "fit in" better. It seems to me that a certain period of adjustment to shattered optimism, followed by the growth of a hornlike callus of cynicism, would result in more tempered k5ers in our own mold.

"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:

We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.

there is a reason for the season of your discontent. Your pain has produced a shocking  exposé on the cabal.

Kaseryn has noted the true danger of your work and I must pray over my response in the event it comes to vote.

Shall I abstain?

seems apprapo, neh?

--

Search the Scriptures

Start with some cheap grace... Got Life?

We enjoyed this quite a bit, & particularly the sly refences to Nip culture. Still, we think the pecking and internal trolling you mentioned is only part of k5's appeal--probly most of us are socially dysfunctional in the meat, hence the diary ghetto. The more important aspect, we think, is simply that many user accounts do stretch way back into the years...plus, we're largely chaotic neutral.

It's like, there are so-called 'internet forums' where people jack off in each other's mouths and toss off inane ideas, and then there is K5--the equivalent of an internet Senate, where senior members come to deliberate and discuss matters on a totally different plane (e.g., the whys and wherefores of ass-bleeding). Not that kurons are all stodgy, pompous, or full of self-import (or don't jack off on each other), but that they usually believe in what they're saying, or pretend to, or at least believe that they should say it in an articulate/clever/cutting/etc. manner. Other forums, like slashdick and muffy (intentionally not mentioning 4chin), fail it because they lack k5's elitist (or smartass) atmosphere. Problem is, like the Senate, we're so leet we rarely feel the need to produce anything cuz we're so leetly busy posing on the boob tube (here analogous to the diary ghetto). Anyways, you've done something and that's really something. Really.

"Depending on your perspective you are an optimist or a pessimist[,] and a hopeless one too." --trhurler

the decline may be terminal ( 3.00 / 8) ( #23)

by bunk on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 11:48:02 PM EST

In the two years I've been lurking and then trolling there has been no doubt that k5 has been consistently on the decline - hence the repeated cries of one of our most enduring memes 'k5 is dying'.

The front page posting threshold has gone from 70 to 40, and even the ghetto is struggling to turn over 10 or 12 diaries every 24 hours.  This is far down from historic levels and shows no sign of turning itself around.

What I'm getting at is the fact that K5 is dying is perhaps more historically significant than you suggest. It's hard not to contrast contemporary K5 to the golden era (when it was not unheard of for a single comment to get 150 individual ratings) and wonder if the decline is terminal.  Maybe K5 will find a stable equilibrium, but I see little evidence to suggest it will.

hunger strike + bong hits = super munchies -- horny smurf

Stay of the E in future though.

GBH

The first rule of K5 is: always talk about K5.

And that was a nice touch, linking the word "sex" to your user page.

-- Indymedia: the fanfiction.net of journalism.

Driving to Town Late to Mail a Letter ( 3.00 / 3) ( #33)

by mirleid on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 07:10:48 AM EST

It is a cold and snowy night. The main street is deserted.

The only things moving are swirls of snow.

As I lift the mailbox door, I feel its cold iron.

There is a privacy I love in this snowy night.

Driving around, I will waste more time.

by Robert Bly. Somehow, it sounded appropriate...

Chickens don't give milk

----------------

Enterobacteria phage T2 is a virulent bacteriophage of the T4-like viruses genus, in the family Myoviridae. It infects E. coli and is the best known of the T-even phages. Its virion contains linear double-stranded DNA, terminally redundant and circularly permuted.

I promise to post to k5 more often whilst under the influence of various substances. Wish me luck.

---

"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken

Seems that K5 always looks like it's dying because we get like three new users a year. No explosive growth = no life = dying = good as dead.

Good thing the CMF ain't publicly traded, eh?

F in.

The Last Days of k5 ( 3.00 / 4) ( #51)

by starX on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 03:25:39 PM EST

Around the same time that Slashdot started to feel like it was devolving into a continuing angst driven whine to lynch the executives of the RIAA and the MPAA, I stumbled across k5. It wasn't the trolling that drew me to this place, it was the intelligent discussion about topical issues, and a sense that the people who were talking were doing more than just talking.

Maybe times are a changing, and maybe they're not, but whereas before heated discussion founded in opposing points of view would breakdown into trolling, that's the place it seems to like to start now. People aren't reading what they vote down and, apparently, what they're voting up in some cases.  I like your analogy to the glacier; k5 feels like it's fracturing into cliques.

It's the way of the internet in general, maybe. Email gives way to IM. Homepages give way to myspace. Kuro5hin can only resist the pressures of its external environment for so long. There are still other sites, that have been community forums for longer than k5 even, and they have found ways to survive. I suspect k5 will be no different. Rome fell in 476 AD, but the Byzantine's called themselves Roman until their empire fell in 1453.

If k5 ever really meant anything to anyone, if there ever really was a community that was more than just a url and a web forum, than it will survive in one form or another.

" I like you starX, you disagree without sounding like a fanatic from a rock-solid point of view. Highfive." --WonderJoust

for getting the _Survivor_ reference. Very good, sir. I would also like to point out that your article on the failure of digg was inspirational to this story. Also, are you drunk?

Last I checked, Cat 4 hurricanes haven't landed in Florida

- postDigital -

  • RE: Palahniuk by LilDebbie, 02/27/2007 10:52:27 PM EST ( none / 0)

We are united, we are fools, and we are America!

that it doesn't have any real problems. Well, maybe the mod queue has some. But it always seems to work itself out.

I remember in 2000-2001 people here were way too serious and by 2003 things changed drastically and a lot of the original users faded away or were run off.

Now it is a playground with ocaisional seriousness to remind us all that there is another reason to come here, even if it is incidental.  K5 recruits for itself.

I do suspect at some point in the not too distant future the plug will get pulled a la Adequacy and that would be quite a shame.

You and your whore friends should be hanged. jxg, ruston rustov, lorbsd, etc etc

Shut the fuck up hillbilly. - Ruston Rustov/LOBSD/etc THE Microcephalic.

I like you, I'll kill you last. - Killer Clown

The ScuttledMonkey: A Story Collection

You know what?? ( 2.00 / 2) ( #67)

by apple on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 05:20:55 PM EST

If everyone was, like, a little bit, like, nicer to people and things, then it wouldn't be dying. That's obviously the answer, you, and everybody else, just got to put aside your ingrained antisocial tendencies, and go out there, onto the other messageboards around the internets, and instead of trolling and winding people up and things, extend the hand of friendship, pay them compliments, say you like the things they like, then tell them about here and what a great site this is at K5, and say, hey, why don't you check it out? Then more people will come and visit, and they'll find a nice, friendly, welcoming website full of knowledgeable and well-balanced individuals. Come on, K5, why not be nice for a change, you might feel better.

-----------------

Sem4phore.org

And K5 is dying. Ergo, K5 is the Divine Comedy of the intellect of man.

Your article has reminded me why I like it here, and that's why it, too, must fail.

-1 XXXOOO

$ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ . ₩ . . . . . � . . . . . � . . . . . � . . . . . � . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * $ . . . . . ♀ . . . . . ♀ . . . . . ♀ . . . . . ♀ . . . . . ♀ . . . . . $ He's got a small rocket if you know what I mean. Short fuse and pops early. --GhostOfTiber $ . . . . . ♀ . . . . . ♀ . . . . . ♀ . . . . . ♀ . . . . . ♀ . . . . . $ . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . ₩ . . . . . � . . . . . � . . . . . � . . . . . � $ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ $B R Σ III$

...because the "point" is buried under a bunch of useless emo-navel gazing (and because it's written by LilDebbie).

But to address what this article seems to be saying, K5 *is* declining in readership, but will likely keep its hardcore adherents (namely most of the people who are left) long enough to keep chugging away for awhile. Some improvements that I think would help have already been mentioned, such as the ability to add images or imbed video into articles and diaries.

Let's face it, we'll never be as popular as the news aggregator sites (Digg, Reddit, Slashdot etc.) because we don't have as much front page content as they do, even with the lowered threshold of 40. The diary section will keep chugging away, but will be of interest primarily to those already in the community. Also, given the editorially democratic nature of the site, any content we will be scattershot in focus. K5 isn't a huge destination for tech news anymore. If you want political analysis, cultural opinion, or f-1ction, you'll likely be looking at something that has a more narrow niche.

Still, even though those other sites have more to look at, they are dependent on links to other sites for their content while providing the forum and community for discussion. K5's advantage is that instead of aggregating content, it creates its own. So while we may not have many regular readers outside our core users, we will get huge boosts whenever something we do hits that FNH critical mass.

Of course, such an arrangement depends on having a large enough community to provide that content. We may scare away a lot of people, but I don't think that our "hazing" really hurts us. Husi is our kinder, gentler sister site and I hardly ever see much to hold my interest there as an outsider. I think our more competitive nature raises the bar and weeds out the mediocre.

the world turns when you don't even know it.

i mean who would have thought when i woke up this morning, there would be lil debbie singing "my funny valentine" to k5.

"is your figure less than greek? is your mouth a little weak, when you open it to speak, are you smart?"

and now i'm off to work.  where no one is singing at all.  but we ARE reciting the pledge.   under god and indivisible.  for liberty and justice for all.

What about the rest of us, the lurkers and those who only post the occasional insipid comments and diary?

We do so much, but get no notice. Please tell me, if just for curiousities sake, where do I fit into your plans for k5?

\\\________

If they hadn't been such quality beasts (despite being so young) it would have been a nightmare - good self-starting, capable hands are your finest friend. -- Anonymous CEO

Metcalfe's Law (network value increases as square of # of connections) is a particularly brutal survival-of-the-fittest. It really is "monopolize the niche or die."

K5 is insufficiently distinct from TOS (and other sites) to be worth the friction (glitches and irritations). So it loses readers and posters.

Community lives. USENET and mailing lists are as alive as ever. K5 is not, IMHO mostly a result of friction.

You've warmed the cockles of my heart. If I'm ever in your area I'd like to buy you a beer and then maybe we could gay it up a little bit.

don't make me poke you in the tummy like the doughboy!!!!1111

---

HR 1207 HR 1207 HR 1207 HR 1207

Does K5 confirm itself that it is dying?

We are united, we are fools, and we are America!

I just picture you dressed up in military regalia, pacing back in forth in front of a huge American flag:

Now, there's one thing that you men will be able to say when you get back home, and you may thank God for it. Thirty years from now when you're sitting around your fireside with your grandson on your knee, and he asks you, "What did you do in the second great FNH Flamewar?" You won't have to say, "Well, I bitched about Steve Ballmer on Slashdot." Alright now, you sons of bitches, you know how I feel. I will be proud to lead you wonderful guys into battle anytime, anywhere. That's all.

Damn, I'm gettin' all weepy.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.

That was beautiful... ( 3.00 / 1) ( #114)

by tweet on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 04:29:06 PM EST

...if it wasn't so twisted and dark inside I would shed a tear.

one path leads to despair and utter hopelessness; the other to total extinction. Let us pray that we have the wisdom to choose the right one.

you are human:

no masters,

no slaves.

Natalie Holloway was K5's peak ( none / 0) ( #122)

by kbudha on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:18:05 AM EST

Its all downhill from here.

Online communities and forums are just primitive hive minds. As far as I can tell, Kuro5hin is basically just the long running train of thought of a lonely, confused, manic depressive hive mind waiting for the singularity.

The "big" sites are just the loudest hyperactive hive minds. They produce a lot of thoughts, but they're repetitive and often shallow. They're like the people who won't shut up and won't learn anything (and they come to your home and eat all your bandwidth and won't leave).

If The Well Can Still Be Around ( none / 0) ( #135)

by Inhibit on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:29:23 AM EST

( The Well) I don't see a problem for Kuro5hin pulling it.  Hell.  I must've been here for a while now..  and there's still random crap that floats up out of the que to interest me.

-- Inhibit, PCBurn Linux hardware/software reviewer

You just keep wanking away over here.

And that explains why airplanes carry cargo on small boats floating in their cargo aquarium. - jmzero

no way! i'm lame, it's my nature ( 3.00 / 1) ( #147)

by sye on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:16:05 PM EST

My comment defies the title of your post ( 3.00 / 1) ( #150)

by drbunny666 on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 12:13:03 AM EST

Thanks for the very insightful and thought provoking read, Lil Debbie. It was powerful, way off beat, and forced me to do something I have never done - post a comment here on Kuro5hin, even after lurking for at least 4 years.

I am not feeling verbose enough to justify my actions right now, I just thought it would be fun to be contrary to your article and have a positive effect at the same time. Im sure Im not the only lurker here ;) I think the obvious metrics like # of articles or comment rankings dont reflect lurkers who return sporadicaly due to the low churn, but nonetheless genuinely appreciate this wonderful stop along the internet.

Thanks Debbie and everybody else

i don't know any other sites that serve quite the same function as here.  amateurs write lengthy discussion pieces for free, with no limitation or suggestion on content or topic except what's determined by the mob, just for the pleasure of duty and praise.  only serious communists or, like you said, sex offenders could get any enjoyment out of reading or participating in this kind of site.

where else is like 1/10 of the content "meta" about how the site should be run differently, or pats on the back like this story?

there have been some grandiose "meta" moments in the history of this site, like the contested advent of f-1ction, probably the undoing of this place.  or that awkward period when you couldn't register new logins.

yeah k5 is continuously dying, but it's had a good run and will go on for a while...can't someone write a complete history of this site with just the highlights, etc, instead of this kind of nonsense stuff that's ruining the site as much or more than f-1ction did.

rusty, do you want to write a book?  you'd make more money than from your text ads and subscription pittance, and it'd cause a membership surge.

  • unlike blogs by tetsuwan, 03/14/2007 03:13:17 PM EST ( none / 0)

I don't think I've heard you complaining like this before.

But then I'm probably one of the "community"

who has in the past felt unwelcome in here.

Just wanted to say being intellectually snobbish

is one way to keep your numbers down.

And encouraging vile but witty writing of course is another terrible sign of the times that people

seem to now think it's "cool" to be revolting

and oh yes, let's treasure anyone who can

write about the more base elements of life.

Whatever.........

The fact that this "article" made it to the front page is a great example of why K5 is dying. You won't even see tripe like this on Digg, and that's saying a lot. Keep up the good work, folks.

Bush/Cheney 2004! - "Because we've still got more people to kill"

I doubt that anyone truly knows why we keep coming back. I still do even though the thing I tried to post got ripped to shreds due to typing errors caused be 2nd degree burns on my hands. Despite the rudeness this is still a regular stop.

  1. When you start talking about the viability of something, instead of participating in it; it's already dead.

  2. What ever that shit is, stop taking it.

that you made your hair look like a penis from the Edo period.  I hear that many of the geisha hairstyles resembled vulvae and whatnot.  They would include a red ribbon for effect.

Now I think I want to back away very slowly while smiling to make sure nobody attacks me.

First of all I would like to say that my comments here aren't about this post specifically but instead focused on the genre of the "K5 is dying" posts.  I am writing out of years of frustration with these posts that have proven to be less than accurate... K5 is still here after all!  So my apologies to LilDebbie.  I don't mean to trash you or your post.

I used to visit and comment on K5 but several years ago I stopped.  It seemed as though the articles trashing the site became ever more common.

How much can a person hear how much this site sucks before they start believing it?

How many interested people were turned away by the self-loathing posts that seem to be posted all the time?

How many of those that turned away would have made positive contributions?

And how many trolls see an online community uselessly bitching about itself and said to themselves "hey now, this is a place where I can write self-indulgent hyper-negative posts that I don't even really care about and not look like the most depressively histrionic person, evar."

That is my rant.  Again, apologies to anyone I offended.

I'm going to visit K5 more often; oh, and smoke more pot too. You knew I'd be back looking for that goat anyway, you filthy fucker. Oh yeah. Uh huh.

... is a front page full of nothing but LocalRoger's painfully dull attempts at science fiction. What doesn't kill K5 makes it stronger.

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